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Poster: DavidLavendle Date: Feb 27, 2007 1:20pm

Forum: forums Subject: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: cheifet Date: Mar 3, 2007 6:23am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Some Background and Context for the BBC 9/11 Clips

This video clip is part of a collection from the TV Archive of global television coverage of the events that occurred on and shortly after September 11, 2001.

This clip, among others, has drawn quite a bit of attention because it appears to show a BBC reporter in New York reporting that World Trade Center Building 7, also referred to as WTC7 or the Salomon Brothers Building, has collapsed before it actually did collapse.

Despite the discussion of time code stamping and UTC conversions to EDT, the timing on the clip appears to be correct. This particular clip was recorded between 4:54 and 5:36 PM EDT. The anchor references to the WTC7 collapsing occur at 4:58 PM and 5:01 PM and then a live reporter says the building has collapsed at 5:08 PM in what appears to be a live shot with the building still in tact behind her. The feed from the live reporter is lost at 5:15 PM and then the building does actually collapse at 5:20 PM.

A subsequent clip from the BBC then shows coverage of the actual collapse in an archived account recorded from 5:36 – 6:16PM. This clip is available at http://www.archive.org/details/bbc200109111736-1818 .

An annotated version of the key sequence from this clip can be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzxEoEfE_8A .

Further support for the correct timing on the clip comes from another archived clip, this one from the BBC 24 channel which includes a time stamp on the TV screen indicating that the reference to the collapses of WTC7 does occur before the actual collapse.

There is some discussion as to whether or not that time stamp was later edited in by someone tampering with the clip. It is unclear whether that happened or not but the reporting and the time of the reporting as shown does seem to coincide with the other BBC World report. This clip can be seen at various web sites including http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/280207timestamp.htm .

Also there has been some discussion about whether the shot of the WTC7 still standing was a live shot or a so-called “green screen” shot in which the live reporter was photographed in front of an electronic screen with a superimposed image of videotape of earlier coverage. That could explain the time disparity; however other clips seem to support the view that the video behind the BBC reporter in this clip is indeed live.

This clip is being widely circulated on the web along with other 9/11 news coverage clips that have surfaced. The earliest apparent reports of WTC7 collapsing come from CNN which reports before 5PM that WTC7 is either burning, is collapsing or has collapsed. You can see this clip at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD0UWq_ORR4 . That story then gets repeated later on BBC 24 and BBC World. Similar coverage on ABC can be found posted at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qyiov_c6Fg .

Assuming all the time references are correct, there are two possible explanations offered for the confusion. One is that the building was intentionally brought down by its owner and that a press release indicating that was prematurely issued and prematurely reported on by the media. Another explanation is that there was simply confusion at the time and some journalistic “whispering down the lane” in which early stories that there was something happening at WTC7 led to rumors of its collapsing which then led to on-air reporting of its collapse. The fact that the WTC7 is still standing and visible in the background of the live shot appears to confirm that the reporting of the collapse did take place before the actual collapse.

One possible explanation for the apparent clairvoyance of the reporter, or the alleged deception by those in charge, is that there was a fire at WTC7 when it was first reported on CNN at approximately 4:10 PM and that the BBC then picked up that story from CNN and reported that the WTC7 might be collapsing and in the confusion of live news coverage that story then was communicated to the anchor and the reporter that the building had collapsed.

Additional information may be available from other television network coverage of that same period of time which has also been archived by the TV Archive. This includes coverage from ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and CNN. Efforts are underway to gather that additional archive footage so that a more comprehensive picture can be presented of what really happened that day.

Other references and discussions related to this clip can be found at various other web sites including http://www.livelead.com , http://www.911truth.org , http://www.prisonplanet.com , http://www.informationliberation.com , http://www.911blogger.com , and http://www.digg.com .

The official BBC statement regarding its explanation for the mistaken reporting can be found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/27/index.html .

This post was modified by cheifet on 2007-03-03 14:23:37

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 3, 2007 11:12pm

Forum: forums Subject: And here is the BBC's second attempt at an explanation.

I am still waiting for the third attempt. Maybe they will have come up with something convincing by then. Third time's the charm? So far? Pshaw.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/03/part_of_the_conspiracy_2.html

This post was modified by christoq on 2007-03-04 07:12:14

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Poster: vimanaboy Date: Feb 27, 2007 3:22pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

This is why I came here to the forums as well.

Someone at IA PLEASE provide an answer ASAP!

Thank you,

Yarrow Sweningsen
Media Services Dept.
Santa Rosa Junior College

This post was modified by vimanaboy on 2007-02-27 23:22:40

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Poster: brewster Date: Mar 2, 2007 6:20pm

Forum: forums Subject: A couple BBC 9/11 videos available again

Please see http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=107775

(and reply there if you would like).

-brewster

This post was modified by brewster on 2007-03-03 02:20:10

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Poster: IIB Date: Mar 4, 2007 10:49am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

This has nothing to do with the now dead links to the files in the list, but rather the missing time slots form the list that's available.

I've found several missing time slots and/or files from list of the set that was posted here:

I assume that list was computer / script generated and therefore relatively accurate in reporting was was there.

Some of these are important times. Many appear as just a file missing from the list, others are obviously out of sequence times.

Are these errors in the list printout or are they missing from the collection altogether??

This is the list of missing times:

NBC4 Washington

nbc200109110831-0912/V08546-02.mpg
nbc200109110912-0954/V08546-06.mpg
nbc200109110954-1036/V08546-10.mpg
nbc200109111036-1117/V08546-14.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
nbc200109111159-1241/V08546-22.mpg
nbc200109111241-1322/V08546-26.mpg
nbc200109111323-1404/V08546-30.mpg
nbc200109111404-1446/V08553-02.mpg
nbc200109111446-1528/V08553-06.mpg
nbc200109111528-1609/V08553-10.mpg
nbc200109111609-1651/V08553-14.mpg
nbc200109111651-1733/V08553-18.mpg
nbc200109111733-1814/V08553-22.mpg
nbc200109111814-1856/V08553-26.mpg
nbc200109111856-1938/V08553-30.mpg
nbc200109111919-2000/V08543-22.mpg
nbc200109111938-2019/V08576-02.mpg
nbc200109112000-2041/V08546-18.mpg
nbc200109112019-2101/V08576-06.mpg
nbc200109112101-2143/V08576-10.mpg
nbc200109112143-2224/V08576-14.mpg
nbc200109112224-2306/V08576-18.mpg
nbc200109112306-2348/V08576-22.mpg
nbc200109112348-0030/V08576-26.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
nbc200109120324-0405/V08576-30.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
nbc200109120939-1021/V08572-02.mpg
nbc200109121021-1102/V08572-06.mpg
nbc200109121102-1144/V08572-10.mpg
nbc200109121144-1226/V08572-14.mpg
nbc200109121226-1307/V08572-18.mpg
nbc200109121307-1349/V08572-22.mpg
nbc200109121349-1431/V08572-26.mpg
nbc200109121431-1512/V08572-30.mpg
nbc200109121512-1554/V08574-02.mpg
nbc200109121554-1636/V08574-06.mpg
nbc200109121636-1717/V08574-10.mpg
nbc200109121717-1759/V08574-14.mpg
nbc200109121759-1841/V08574-18.mpg
nbc200109121841-1922/V08574-22.mpg
nbc200109121923-2004/V08574-26.mpg
nbc200109122004-2046/V08574-30.mpg
nbc200109122046-2128/V08554-02.mpg
nbc200109122128-2209/V08554-06.mpg
nbc200109122209-2251/V08554-10.mpg
nbc200109122251-2333/V08554-14.mpg
nbc200109122333-0014/V08554-18.mpg
nbc200109130014-0056/V08554-22.mpg
nbc200109130056-0138/V08554-26.mpg
nbc200109130138-0219/V08554-30.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
nbc200109130753-0835/V08607-02.mpg
nbc200109130835-0916/V08607-06.mpg
nbc200109130916-0958/V08607-10.mpg
nbc200109130958-1040/V08607-14.mpg
nbc200109131032-1113/V08607-18.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
nbc200109131121-1203/V08607-22.mpg
nbc200109131203-1245/V08607-26.mpg
nbc200109131245-1326/V08607-30.mpg
nbc200109131326-1408/V08597-02.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
nbc200109131450-1532/V08597-10.mpg
nbc200109131532-1613/V08597-14.mpg
nbc200109131613-1655/V08597-18.mpg
nbc200109131655-1737/V08597-22.mpg
nbc200109131737-1818/V08597-26.mpg
nbc200109131818-1900/V08597-30.mpg
nbc200109131900-1942/V08603-02.mpg
nbc200109131942-2023/V08603-06.mpg

ABC7 Washington

abc200109110831-0912/V08546-05.mpg
abc200109110912-0954/V08546-09.mpg
abc200109110954-1036/V08546-13.mpg
abc200109111036-1118/V08546-17.mpg
abc200109111118-1159/V08546-21.mpg
abc200109111159-1241/V08546-25.mpg
abc200109111241-1323/V08546-29.mpg
abc200109111323-1404/V08553-01.mpg
abc200109111404-1446/V08553-05.mpg
abc200109111446-1528/V08553-09.mpg
abc200109111528-1609/V08553-13.mpg
abc200109111609-1651/V08553-17.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
abc200109111733-1814/V08553-25.mpg
abc200109111814-1856/V08553-29.mpg
abc200109111856-1938/V08576-01.mpg
abc200109111919-2000/V08543-25.mpg
abc200109111938-2020/V08576-05.mpg
abc200109112020-2101/V08576-09.mpg
abc200109112101-2143/V08576-13.mpg
abc200109112143-2225/V08576-17.mpg
abc200109112225-2306/V08576-21.mpg
abc200109112306-2348/V08576-25.mpg
abc200109112348-0030/V08576-29.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
abc200109120857-0939/V08572-01.mpg
abc200109120939-1021/V08572-05.mpg
abc200109121021-1102/V08572-09.mpg
abc200109121102-1144/V08572-13.mpg
abc200109121144-1226/V08572-17.mpg
abc200109121226-1307/V08572-21.mpg
abc200109121307-1349/V08572-25.mpg
abc200109121349-1431/V08572-29.mpg
abc200109121431-1512/V08574-01.mpg
abc200109121512-1554/V08574-05.mpg
abc200109121554-1636/V08574-09.mpg
abc200109121636-1718/V08574-13.mpg
abc200109121718-1759/V08574-17.mpg
abc200109121759-1841/V08574-21.mpg
abc200109121841-1923/V08574-25.mpg
abc200109121923-2004/V08574-29.mpg
abc200109122004-2046/V08554-01.mpg
abc200109122046-2128/V08554-05.mpg
abc200109122128-2209/V08554-09.mpg
abc200109122209-2251/V08554-13.mpg
abc200109122251-2333/V08554-17.mpg
abc200109122333-0014/V08554-21.mpg
abc200109130014-0056/V08554-25.mpg
abc200109130056-0138/V08554-29.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
abc200109130711-0753/V08607-01.mpg
abc200109130753-0835/V08607-05.mpg
abc200109130835-0916/V08607-09.mpg
abc200109130916-0958/V08607-13.mpg
abc200109130958-1040/V08607-17.mpg
abc200109131040-1122/V08607-21.mpg
abc200109131122-1203/V08607-25.mpg
abc200109131203-1245/V08607-29.mpg
abc200109131245-1327/V08597-01.mpg
abc200109131327-1408/V08597-05.mpg
abc200109131408-1450/V08597-09.mpg
abc200109131450-1532/V08597-13.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
abc200109131613-1655/V08597-21.mpg
abc200109131655-1737/V08597-25.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
abc200109131818-1900/V08603-01.mpg
abc200109131900-1942/V08603-05.mpg
abc200109131942-2023/V08603-09.mpg
abc200109132023-2105/V08603-13.mpg
abc200109132105-2147/V08603-17.mpg
abc200109132147-2229/V08603-21.mpg

BBC

bbc200109110916-0957/V08515-04.mpg
bbc200109110957-1039/V08515-08.mpg
bbc200109111039-1121/V08515-12.mpg
bbc200109111121-1202/V08515-16.mpg
bbc200109111202-1244/V08515-20.mpg
bbc200109111244-1326/V08515-24.mpg
bbc200109111326-1408/V08515-28.mpg
bbc200109111408-1449/V08515-32.mpg
bbc200109111449-1531/V08591-04.mpg
bbc200109111531-1613/V08591-08.mpg
bbc200109111613-1654/V08591-12.mpg
bbc200109111654-1736/V08591-16.mpg
bbc200109111736-1818/V08591-20.mpg
bbc200109111818-1859/V08591-24.mpg
bbc200109111859-1941/V08591-28.mpg
bbc200109111941-2023/V08591-32.mpg
bbc200109112023-2104/V08590-04.mpg
bbc200109112104-2146/V08590-08.mpg
bbc200109112146-2228/V08590-12.mpg
bbc200109112228-2309/V08590-16.mpg
bbc200109112310-2351/V08590-20.mpg
bbc200109112351-0033/V08590-24.mpg
bbc200109120033-0115/V08590-28.mpg
bbc200109120115-0156/V08590-32.mpg
bbc200109120156-0238/V08565-04.mpg
bbc200109120238-0320/V08565-08.mpg
bbc200109120320-0401/V08565-12.mpg
bbc200109120401-0443/V08565-16.mpg
bbc200109120443-0525/V08565-20.mpg
bbc200109120525-0606/V08565-24.mpg
bbc200109120606-0648/V08565-28.mpg
bbc200109120648-0730/V08565-32.mpg
bbc200109120730-0811/V08564-04.mpg
bbc200109120811-0853/V08564-08.mpg
bbc200109120853-0935/V08564-12.mpg
bbc200109120935-1017/V08564-16.mpg
bbc200109121017-1058/V08564-20.mpg
bbc200109121058-1140/V08564-24.mpg
bbc200109121140-1222/V08564-28.mpg
bbc200109121222-1303/V08564-32.mpg
bbc200109121303-1345/V08563-04.mpg
bbc200109121345-1427/V08563-08.mpg
bbc200109121427-1508/V08563-12.mpg
bbc200109121508-1550/V08563-16.mpg
bbc200109121550-1632/V08563-20.mpg
bbc200109121632-1713/V08563-24.mpg
bbc200109121713-1755/V08563-28.mpg
bbc200109121755-1837/V08563-32.mpg
bbc200109121837-1919/V08568-04.mpg
bbc200109121919-2000/V08568-08.mpg
bbc200109122000-2042/V08568-12.mpg
bbc200109122042-2124/V08568-16.mpg
bbc200109122124-2205/V08568-20.mpg
bbc200109122205-2247/V08568-24.mpg
bbc200109122247-2329/V08568-28.mpg
bbc200109122329-0010/V08568-32.mpg
bbc200109130010-0052/V08567-04.mpg
bbc200109130052-0134/V08567-08.mpg
bbc200109130134-0215/V08567-12.mpg
bbc200109130215-0257/V08567-16.mpg
bbc200109130257-0339/V08567-20.mpg
bbc200109130339-0421/V08567-24.mpg
bbc200109130421-0502/V08567-28.mpg
bbc200109130502-0544/V08567-32.mpg
bbc200109130544-0626/V08566-04.mpg
bbc200109130626-0707/V08566-08.mpg
bbc200109130707-0749/V08566-12.mpg
bbc200109130749-0831/V08566-16.mpg
bbc200109130831-0912/V08566-20.mpg
bbc200109130912-0954/V08566-24.mpg
bbc200109130954-1036/V08566-28.mpg
bbc200109131036-1117/V08566-32.mpg
bbc200109131117-1159/V08571-04.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
bbc200109131322-1404/V08571-16.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
bbc200109131446-1528/V08571-24.mpg
bbc200109131528-1609/V08571-28.mpg
bbc200109131609-1651/V08571-32.mpg
bbc200109131651-1733/V08570-04.mpg
bbc200109131733-1814/V08570-08.mpg
bbc200109131814-1856/V08570-12.mpg
bbc200109131856-1938/V08570-16.mpg
bbc200109131938-2019/V08570-20.mpg

FOX5 Washington

fox5200109110831-0912/V08546-04.mpg
fox5200109110912-0954/V08546-08.mpg
fox5200109110954-1036/V08546-12.mpg
fox5200109111036-1117/V08546-16.mpg
fox5200109111117-1159/V08546-20.mpg
fox5200109111159-1241/V08546-24.mpg
fox5200109111241-1323/V08546-28.mpg
fox5200109111323-1404/V08546-32.mpg
fox5200109111404-1446/V08553-04.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
fox5200109111609-1651/V08553-16.mpg
fox5200109111651-1733/V08553-20.mpg
fox5200109111733-1814/V08553-24.mpg
fox5200109111814-1856/V08553-28.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
fox5200109111919-2000/V08543-24.mpg
fox5200109111938-2019/V08576-04.mpg
fox5200109112019-2101/V08576-08.mpg
fox5200109112101-2143/V08576-12.mpg
fox5200109112143-2225/V08576-16.mpg
fox5200109112225-2306/V08576-20.mpg
fox5200109112306-2348/V08576-24.mpg
fox5200109112348-0030/V08576-28.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
fox5200109120324-0405/V08576-32.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
fox5200109120939-1021/V08572-04.mpg
fox5200109121021-1102/V08572-08.mpg
fox5200109121102-1144/V08572-12.mpg
fox5200109121144-1226/V08572-16.mpg
fox5200109121226-1307/V08572-20.mpg
fox5200109121307-1349/V08572-24.mpg
fox5200109121349-1431/V08572-28.mpg
fox5200109121431-1512/V08572-32.mpg
fox5200109121512-1554/V08574-04.mpg
fox5200109121554-1636/V08574-08.mpg
fox5200109121636-1717/V08574-12.mpg
fox5200109121718-1759/V08574-16.mpg
fox5200109121759-1841/V08574-20.mpg
fox5200109121841-1923/V08574-24.mpg
fox5200109121923-2004/V08574-28.mpg
fox5200109122004-2046/V08574-32.mpg
fox5200109122046-2128/V08554-04.mpg
fox5200109122128-2209/V08554-08.mpg
fox5200109122209-2251/V08554-12.mpg
fox5200109122251-2333/V08554-16.mpg
fox5200109122333-0014/V08554-20.mpg
fox5200109130014-0056/V08554-24.mpg
fox5200109130056-0138/V08554-28.mpg
fox5200109130138-0219/V08554-32.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
fox5200109130753-0835/V08607-04.mpg
fox5200109130835-0916/V08607-08.mpg
fox5200109130916-0958/V08607-12.mpg
fox5200109130958-1040/V08607-16.mpg
fox5200109131040-1121/V08607-20.mpg
fox5200109131121-1203/V08607-24.mpg
fox5200109131203-1245/V08607-28.mpg
fox5200109131245-1327/V08607-32.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
fox5200109131408-1450/V08597-08.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
fox5200109131450-1532/V08597-12.mpg
fox5200109131532-1613/V08597-16.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
fox5200109131655-1737/V08597-24.mpg
fox5200109131737-1818/V08597-28.mpg
fox5200109131818-1900/V08597-32.mpg
fox5200109131900-1942/V08603-04.mpg
fox5200109131942-2023/V08603-08.mpg

CNN

cnn200109110848-0929/V08527-04.mpg
cnn200109110929-1011/V08527-08.mpg
cnn200109111011-1053/V08527-12.mpg
cnn200109111053-1134/V08527-16.mpg
cnn200109111134-1216/V08527-20.mpg
cnn200109111216-1258/V08527-24.mpg
cnn200109111258-1339/V08527-28.mpg
cnn200109111339-1421/V08527-32.mpg
cnn200109111421-1503/V08537-04.mpg
cnn200109111503-1545/V08537-08.mpg
cnn200109111545-1626/V08537-12.mpg
cnn200109111626-1708/V08537-16.mpg
cnn200109111708-1750/V08537-20.mpg
cnn200109111750-1831/V08537-24.mpg
cnn200109111831-1913/V08537-28.mpg
cnn200109111913-1955/V08537-32.mpg
cnn200109111936-2017/V08524-24.mpg
cnn200109111955-2036/V08581-04.mpg
cnn200109112036-2118/V08581-08.mpg
cnn200109112118-2200/V08581-12.mpg
cnn200109112200-2241/V08581-16.mpg
cnn200109112241-2323/V08581-20.mpg
cnn200109112323-0005/V08581-24.mpg
cnn200109120005-0047/V08581-28.mpg
cnn200109120047-0128/V08581-32.mpg
cnn200109120128-0210/V08582-04.mpg
cnn200109120210-0252/V08582-08.mpg
cnn200109120252-0333/V08582-12.mpg
cnn200109120333-0415/V08582-16.mpg
cnn200109120415-0457/V08582-20.mpg
cnn200109120457-0538/V08582-24.mpg
cnn200109120538-0620/V08582-28.mpg
cnn200109120620-0702/V08582-32.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
cnn200109121235-1317/V08583-04.mpg
cnn200109121317-1359/V08583-08.mpg
cnn200109121359-1440/V08583-12.mpg
cnn200109121440-1522/V08583-16.mpg
cnn200109121522-1604/V08583-20.mpg
cnn200109121604-1645/V08583-24.mpg
cnn200109121645-1727/V08583-28.mpg
cnn200109121727-1809/V08583-32.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
cnn200109121851-1932/V08585-08.mpg
cnn200109121932-2014/V08585-12.mpg
cnn200109122014-2056/V08585-16.mpg
cnn200109122056-2137/V08585-20.mpg
cnn200109122137-2219/V08585-24.mpg
cnn200109122219-2301/V08585-28.mpg
cnn200109122301-2342/V08585-32.mpg
cnn200109122342-0024/V08586-04.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
cnn200109130106-0147/V08586-12.mpg
cnn200109130147-0229/V08586-16.mpg
cnn200109130229-0311/V08586-20.mpg
cnn200109130311-0352/V08586-24.mpg
cnn200109130352-0434/V08586-28.mpg
cnn200109130434-0516/V08586-32.mpg
cnn200109130516-0558/V08593-04.mpg
cnn200109130558-0639/V08593-08.mpg
cnn200109130639-0721/V08593-12.mpg
cnn200109130721-0803/V08593-16.mpg
cnn200109130803-0844/V08593-20.mpg
cnn200109130844-0926/V08593-24.mpg
cnn200109130926-1008/V08593-28.mpg
cnn200109131008-1049/V08593-32.mpg
cnn200109131049-1131/V08594-04.mpg
cnn200109131131-1213/V08594-08.mpg
cnn200109131213-1254/V08594-12.mpg
cnn200109131254-1336/V08594-16.mpg
cnn200109131336-1418/V08594-20.mpg
cnn200109131418-1500/V08594-24.mpg
cnn200109131500-1541/V08594-28.mpg
cnn200109131541-1623/V08594-32.mpg
cnn200109131623-1705/V08595-04.mpg
cnn200109131705-1746/V08595-07.mpg
cnn200109131746-1828/V08595-10.mpg
cnn200109131828-1910/V08595-13.mpg
cnn200109131910-1951/V08595-17.mpg
cnn200109131951-2033/V08595-21.mpg

CBS9 Washington

cbs200109110831-0912/V08546-03.mpg
cbs200109110912-0954/V08546-07.mpg
cbs200109110954-1036/V08546-11.mpg
cbs200109111036-1117/V08546-15.mpg
cbs200109111117-1159/V08546-19.mpg
cbs200109111159-1241/V08546-23.mpg
cbs200109111241-1322/V08546-27.mpg
cbs200109111322-1404/V08546-31.mpg
cbs200109111404-1446/V08553-03.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
cbs200109111528-1609/V08553-11.mpg
cbs200109111609-1651/V08553-15.mpg
cbs200109111651-1733/V08553-19.mpg
cbs200109111733-1814/V08553-23.mpg
cbs200109111814-1856/V08553-27.mpg
cbs200109111856-1938/V08553-31.mpg
cbs200109111919-2000/V08543-23.mpg
cbs200109111938-2019/V08576-03.mpg
cbs200109112019-2101/V08576-07.mpg
cbs200109112101-2143/V08576-11.mpg
cbs200109112143-2224/V08576-15.mpg
cbs200109112224-2306/V08576-19.mpg
cbs200109112306-2348/V08576-23.mpg
cbs200109112348-0030/V08576-27.mpg
THIS TIME SLOT IS MISSING FROM THE LIST /? ARCHIVE & TORRENTS
cbs200109120324-0405/V08576-31.mpg
cbs200109120939-1021/V08572-03.mpg
cbs200109121021-1102/V08572-07.mpg

End of list???? There are 2 more in this list than the other Archives forum.

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 9, 2007 6:36am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Why is there no BBC footage covering the period 08:34-9:16? as there is for the other broadcasters? This is particularly odd given that there *is* footage for the NEXT period back 07:52-08:34. See link:

http://www.archive.org/details/bbc200109110752-0834

So why the gap? It can't be that nobody STARTED recording, as there's just a gap in the files (i.e a missing feed for 08:34-09:16), and it's the most important one of the day as it covers the attacks around 9am.

What's worse is that (the now infamous) BBC NY reporter Jane Standley is heard in the next feed at the beginning of the 09:16-09:57 file (albeit audio only, your MPEG4 64K, MPEG4 256K, and your Flash file (seeingly generated last autumn) don't display the video, just audio). How has that not been spotted before now? Didn't anyone test them when they were generated last year? Or has someone hacked these and doctored the dates/times (foil hat notion).

Jane is cut out. We only hear the end of her piece at the start of the next clip. She was presumably either on the phone or talking to camera in the 0835-0915 session (it sounds like phone)? You can hear her here:

http://www.archive.org/details/bbc200109110916-0957

Alas, this just all feeds "conspiracy theorists'" and the "we'll get back at the BBC for their savage "hit piece" on us in their 18th Febrary 2006 programme" gang of "paranoics" given that the BBC is the one foreign independent broadcaster on the day which would not be knobbled by the Jewish Media/FBI/CIA/Masons (take your pick) surely .

Now it may just be that you have problems with your source files dated autumn last year, but what is that problem, and why is it a problem for some, but not all of your 1GB mpg source files? And why oh why do the problems always seem to be with files that one would have liked to have scrutinised in order to refute one's paranoia ??

I'm not suggesting anything sinister, just saying that this feeds the fantasists, and that a bit of straight analysis and talk would have gone down very well in these uncertain times (as would making the big source files publicly available for download of course).

This post was modified by Interogator on 2007-03-09 14:36:30

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 9, 2007 8:46am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

It is the Jihad, see here:

http://www.archive.org/details/Jihadmypenis

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 9, 2007 8:53am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

So not only were files downloadable, they were uploadable?

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 9, 2007 9:29am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Absolutely, full duplex. Fight fire with fire.

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Reply [edit]

Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 9, 2007 9:40am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

So, do you reckon any of the files may have been edited or have some just been deleted? If they has been edited, why hasn't the DAT restore sorted the problems out? I'm having a hard time making sense of what I've seen. The source files have dates of Aug/Sept last year. Most of the mpeg4 and flash and thumnails are post March 2nd 2006. Some of the 1GB mpg files don't diplay video either, so if they have been corrupted, and restored opne would have thought the problem would have been sorted out. Dates can be edited of course.

I thought the files may have been restored from DAT (and that the originals had been put on DAT in 2001).

I can't make sense of it, and the guys here at Archive.org aren't exactly spelling out the history.

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 9, 2007 10:12am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Maybe they were edited or corrupted, if you can get into the history of an item, which I am not sure about unless it is your own post, you can see every review, edit, etc.

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Poster: adisonedu Date: Sep 26, 2007 5:09pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

My wife would tell you that herkermer got them. I have found other points in time where history was missing too.

Take for instance 9-11, where is the evidence for that day? Gone, smelted, distroyed, covered-up or outright missing.

There will always be something wrong and holes will exist, it's a conspiracy...

Preston - http://www.adison.edu

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 10, 2007 1:04am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Odd?

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=108338

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Poster: LuckyLarry Date: Mar 2, 2007 8:11am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

THE BBC FOOTAGE IS BACK UP!

You can now download the smoking gun BBC file here:
http://ia311517.us.archive.org/2/items/bbc200109111654-1736/

IA, PLEASE DO YOUR BEST TO GET ALL OTHER FOOTAGE RESTORED ASAP!

Rest assured you ARE doing the right thing.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 2, 2007 10:31am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

I am fully ready to eat a large plate of crow. Thank you for making the footage available.

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:43am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Many researchers are interested in going through the footage you have with a fine-toothed comb. We are also interested in ascertaining the chain of custody for these videos. This is very serious stuff.

We are sober-minded, dedicated independent researchers. We need to establish the bona fides of any medium which we will attempt to use to make our case. We are investigating a mass murder and we need to establish the provenance back to the original source whenever possible.

Paul, thank you for your efforts here! I spoke with you on the phone the day before yesterday. You were very polite and informative. I appreciate your forthrightness on this subject and your efforts to help us.

A lot of very strange coincidences are tied together in this investigation. The fact that the archives were pulled the day after a huge breakthrough for us is simply one more in a long chain. You may understand why we look askance at the sudden removal of a valuable research tool for us. After SO MANY coincidences it can become a little hard for some of us to accept what they are told at face value.

Again, thank you for your efforts on this, Paul. We do appreciate everyone's work to make the archives available. Plesae keep us updated.

Christo

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 11:11am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

I completely understand how strange all this comes off. I think that the concerns are valid and I hope it is communicated that we take this seriously. We value our information as being available for research. That is part of our mission. We are working on this (hence my postings) and will put something up about what happens when we know what happens next.

If you don't hear from me for a while, you can email the general archive address and I will get it personally. Please, please, please don't flood me. I read each message personally, so don't take advantage of this. I will try to give as clear a response as possible. If the answers are not clear from me, please ask clarifying questions. I'll answer then as I can. If I can't answer that, it's not a conspiracy, it's just honesty. I'm the Office Manager, which means I know a lot, but not everything runs through me. This is also why I had to post a correction. I don't always know everything as specifically as one would hope, so please forgive any errors on my part. I know all of you are really looking forward to this getting resolved. I am as well. We all are, so please provide a bit of slack.

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 2, 2007 12:31pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Paul

At least one request has been made for you to check the authenticity/integrity of the BBC files given that at least one of the associated .xml files appeared to have been modified on 18th February (which coincidentally was the date that the BBC aired its 911 Conspiracy episode). I appreciate that your source was Television Archive, but as BBC WORLD asserts that it no longer has the original footage and is unable to authenticate, is it possible for you, or one of your engineers, to contact Television Archive and for you to check your files CRCs against theirs in order to exclude the possibility of tampering/editing? Are your/their files internally dated September 11 2001 and is there any other source data in the files which might authenticate them?

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:43am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

We will work with whoever we can to make sure that this is set up correctly. I am, however, leaving this project to more capable hands, so I do not have as much information about what is the next step with all of this.

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:57am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Fair enough. Please let me/us know how this progresses when you have more information.

I posted a message this morning highlighting problems with some of the files from earlier in the BBC World footage on 11 September 2001. It seems that some of your MPEGs are not available, and that a critically useful flash (.flv) file for the period 13:26-14:08 is audio only (whilst other flv files are audio-video).

Would it be possible for someone to correct this and to let me know when the 256K/64K MPEGs and .flv files are available?

Thanks.

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 10:24am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

I would encourage you to check periodically for the additional MPEG files. As far as the flash files are concerned, this is a new format. We are pushing through what we can on those files, but we are also still working out the bugs on the format. It's only a few weeks new with us, so we'd like to know that it works before we put a lot of faith in it. I hope you can understand that! The flash format is great, and we'd like it to go right on the first go before we put everything we have into something that will need a fix later on. But we're working on this, have no fear.

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 6, 2007 9:31am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Why is there no video here?

http://www.archive.org/movies/thumbnails.php?identifier=bbc200109111326-1408

This appears to be the ONLY footage from the "same" "window" which Jane Standley was allegedly standing in front of between 13:26 and 14:08 on 11th September 2001 (apart from a brief clip in the next sequence where the anchor lost her due to communication problems as in the post 17:00 clip. Yet all we have here is a flash audio with *no* video, and no MPEGs, just tiny thumbnails which make it frustratingly hard to judge. This material would clarify two things at least:

1) a) whether the footage behind Jane was live or odd green screen (the smoke does not seem to move from the middle pane to the left pane b) the buildings in the left pane do not seem aligned with those in the middle pane.

2) Where Jane was on that day exactly. It is not clear what compass point we are viewing from. There is some controversy which may just be a function of not enough footage in the 16:54-17:36 shots (they are cropped or zoomed to not show what was in the left field which appears shiny and fogged like a reflection with smoke goig the wrong way - i.e right, opposite to that immediately behind Jane!), and secondly, there is a handle on the "window frame" in the 13:26-14:08 clip, but apparently not in the 16:54-17:36 clip. Where was Jane exactly? Even if she has just moved to another window we should be able to use this to place her.

Please put the files up, and/or make the 1GB mpg downloadable. The 16:54-17:36 one still is!

Thanks.

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 10, 2007 7:58am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

For anyone interested, in one of the earlier BBC World sequences, the anchor (different from the one later in the day) tells us that Jane Standley was on the corner of 6th Avenue and Grand.

What appears to be an odd window pane at the left of the screen behind Jane at around 14:00, may possibly be an angled mirror or metal surface giving that side of the window a trapezoid appearance with confusing reflections. This is cropped in the footage around 17:00.

Why some of these videos are not playable AV but just as audio is still a bit of a mystery, but it may all just be cockup.

There have been an unsually large numbers of coincindences over the past 10 days or so and these have combined to feed all sorts of concerns, some legitimate, some not.

Hopefully, Internet Archive will in time clear most of these up for us?

This post was modified by Interogator on 2007-03-10 15:58:13

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Poster: lakeshorebaby Date: Mar 1, 2007 1:21pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

This is bullshit. Coincidences my ass. You are now complicit. Whether you are making the decisions, or following orders, get ready to testify.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 1, 2007 3:22pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

dude, you need to chill. do you even know what the IA is even all about?? do you even know about the HUGE move they REALLY did just go through??

I am not part of this non-profit organization, but i've been around enough to know that these good people are legit, and do serve a higher purpose. If you don't like what happened with this particular incident, just chill man. They will look into. I trust them - i don't think my trust is infounded. If it is, shame on me - but i don't think so....

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Poster: davan Date: Mar 2, 2007 4:57am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

"they will look into. I trust them - i don't think my trust is infounded. If it is, shame on me - but i don't think so..."

I think youre someone called 'Sheeple' in singular of course.

"look into that" - just unhide the folders - this whole story is neither an accident nor coincident - as in this thread previously stated the servers IP is still the same - so nothing 'moved' physically - all over lame excuses - nothing more.

This post was modified by davan on 2007-03-02 12:56:48

This post was modified by davan on 2007-03-02 12:57:05

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Poster: Edsel Date: Mar 2, 2007 5:22am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

For what it's worth.
I want to thank all of you for the great stock tip you have provided. I am reinvesting all of my unspecified assets into Alcoa Aluminium.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 2, 2007 9:33am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

well, i said my small bit. i am moving on - you guys/girls can have your fun and fight it out.

peace

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 3:09pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

I tried to decide how to address this one, including completely ignoring it. I will not ignore this, but to let you know that this was simply mean. I have been forthcoming and honest. I'm sorry you do not agree. You are welcome to come and meet us, if you'd like. We're not some crazy company, but doing what we do. You are welcome to come and see for yourself if you'd like.

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 2, 2007 1:03am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

There are many in the research community who are not ready to suspend their disbelief at the number of coincidences which we have encounered. I am prepared to accept all that I have been told by you, Paul, without compunction.

Regarding the offer which you made above, I would be very happy to come by your offices to meet with you personally. Is there any day next week where I could come by to briefly chat with you about the nature of the archives and the timeline for having the TV Archives back online and available for people to stream?

Thank you,
Christo

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:42am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Thank you for your offer. You are welcome to come by, please use the general info at archive dot org address to set a time with me. I will respond that way.

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Feb 27, 2007 4:22pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Thank you for contacting us about this. The files you pulled were not designed for download, and were not available for that purpose. They were in streaming format for a reason.

Our TV Archive is a project that is currently for testing purposes only. We have pulled the footage because it was not yet ready for public viewing.

Paul Forrest Hickman
Office Manager
Internet Archive

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Poster: MrAuer Date: Feb 28, 2007 2:32pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Streaming format?? They were there as mpg files, hardly a streaming format. And if theyre taking too much bandwidth, put them back online in a more compact encoding as soon as possible! These files contain most important historic data concerning one of the major events of the last decade!

Also these videos are actively being censored from elsewhere in the net, namely YouTube and Google Video! Thank god for bittorrent or most wouldnt have access to the better quality files anymore.

Here is what im talking about, go have a look and understand your responsibility in helping to bring the truth of the matter into general knowledge! THAT is the duty of Archive.org, to archive and make available historical fact.

http://digg.com/politics/BBC_Reported_Building_7_Had_Collapsed_20_Minutes_Before_It_Fell

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Feb 28, 2007 2:46pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

We do understand your frustration about this situation. We are having people working on the issue and will get this resolved as soon as we can. We are not censoring the files, but we have to make sure that we can offer the information in the correct way to preserve the content. Our mission statement is clear about how we feel about information and how open we are. Please allow us time to deal with this.

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Poster: reprehensor Date: Mar 1, 2007 7:48am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Dear Paul,

I also wish to seek provenance on the BBC videos.

Who recorded the BBC World material, and who upped it?

Apparently, the BBC does not possess this footage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/part_of_the_conspiracy.html

Thanks,

-reprehensor.

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 9:29am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

To reiterate, the footage was from the TV Archive. The BBC is welcome to have a copy. That's part of why we are here. Hence, the Wayback Machine. It's just that the TV Archive is in beta (almost) and so isn't live yet. The footage was important, so we posted it ahead of how comfortable we were. Now this has come back to hurt us, and that was never meant to happen.

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:18am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

I apologize, I have started to understand more of the history of this collection (it started way before my time). There is an important correction to a previous post: the Television Archive is a separate not-for-profit from the Internet Archive.

I now understand that these materials were available, in streaming form, from October 11, 2001 (when it was launched at the First Amendment Center in Washington DC) for a couple of years. Unfortunately a datacenter move brought these down. The Internet Archive has been working, pro-bono (meaning free), to bring these back up in an appropriate way. When we can do a reasonable job of this, we will let everyone know. Until then, please be patient with us.

In the mean time, we hope the BBC is ok with our allowing some form of distribution of this key program. In which case we will do this immediately. Fingers crossed on that front.

Paul Hickman

Office Manager

This post was modified by PaulForrest on 2007-03-01 18:18:32

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:31am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

"a datacenter move brought these down"

Please explain. Did the BBC ask you to take them down or was it a technical error? I don't want to accuse you of censorship if that is not the case, so please clarify. If there's anything the community at large can do to help you bring the files back up, please let us know.

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 11:03am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

The Datacenter move was a technical error. We moved many many servers from one place to another physically, and it made us a bit wonky. It seems we are still catching all the issues from this.

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Poster: LapDog Date: Mar 1, 2007 12:37pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Sorry Paul, I don't understand.

The BBC file in question was available from this link: http://ia311517.us.archive.org/2/items/bbc200109111654-1736/V08591-16.mpg

When I try to access it now, I clearly get a "Forbidden" error:
"You don't have permission to access /2/items/bbc200109111654-1736/V08591-16.mpg on this server."

Browsing the http://ia311517.us.archive.org/2/items/ folder clearly shows the "bbc200109111654-1736" sub-folder as being hidden, or missing.

Our firewall logs from Tuesday, when I successfully downloaded the file, also show that ia311517.us.archive.org resolved to IP address 208.70.29.221. Today, it still resolves to that very same IP address. So the idea that the server hosting these files moved to another data center is not correct.

I strongly suspect that the files were either physically removed from your servers, or more likely, they were hidden from anonymous users through changes in permissions.

Paul, I do not buy this reasoning. Are you sure what you're saying is accurate?

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 2:56pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

OK, to be clear, I am the Office Manager for the organization, not an engineer. We have been moving servers around for a bit now, making things wonky. We have an incredible amount of data. Really, we have a lot-think petabytes. I will repeat the refrain of previous responses that we are a small non-profit, and we're doing the best we can.

You are a tough crowd, and very thorough (and sometimes mean). I would like to remind you that we are doing the best we can to deal with this. I'm responding to you all so that you know that we are taking you seriously. I don't have any fun news to disseminate. I do, however, have a large backlog of things I need to do. I will let y'all know when I got something juicy. Or I will delegate so that someone else gets to post.

So. To recap, I am not an engineer. I am not a copyright lawyer. We are not censoring. We are a small non-profit with limited resources and limited staff. I'll do the best I can to keep you all appraised on the situation. I am, however, needing to get some of the other work on my plate done today and tomorrow. When I have something, I'll let you know, or delegate to someone to do the same.

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Poster: adisonedu Date: Sep 23, 2007 2:35pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Can you let us in on a secret what servers you recomend and if you suggest we buy or rent. We have two projects going right now. One at: http://www.kids4kids.biz and another at where I work: http://www.adison.edu

We need to look into servers in october and are looking for advice on what to get. Thanks for your time

Preston

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Poster: RssProtocol Date: Oct 6, 2007 10:01pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

We use Server Beach and get our servers there. We are soing an rss search engine and needed some quad servers with the max on ram. The are running us $400 per month which seems reasonable to me.

Oscar Davis
http://www.rssprotocol.com
DSP Administrator
ceonit@frii.com

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Poster: aeolianflow Date: Feb 28, 2007 8:13pm

Forum: forums Subject: Your Explanation for Deleted Files is Unacceptable

Your explanation is as obtuse and unacceptable as that of the BBC regarding how they reported the collapse of the WTC7 building 20 minutes before it occurred - which, incidentally, is what one of the files you removed exposed.

Personally, I am not prone to conspiracy theories and I would have been content in allowing for the possibility that there was confusion between reports that the building was going to collapse and that it already had. But the way this has been handled raises my suspicions.

First, video copies of the BBC's amazing precognition started being deleted from Google and Youtube. Then the BBC puts out an uncharacteristic rapid response claiming it was just an error, but, and without provocation, announced that their tapes of September 11 have been "lost" due to a "cock-up." The BBC no longer has possession of their coverage on 911. Think about that.

Then, copies of that coverage are removed from the Internet Archive.

My first thought on that was the bandwidth was crashing your servers. But, once again, my suspicions are raised by the explanation.

You claim the files were in streaming format when in fact they were in MPEG format.

Your claim that they were "not yet ready for public viewing."

What is this obtuse statement supposed to mean?! The public is viewing them - at least some parts - pretty well despite repeated attempts to prevent it.

Then, in an even more incomprehensible response, you say, "We are not censoring the files, but we have to make sure that we can offer the information in the correct way to preserve the content"

The "correct way"? To "preserve the content?" The content was preserved well until you removed it.

I want to know why you really removed these files, who applied pressure, and who provided the files in the first place.

The principles of the free flow of information which you espouse are surely not being applied here.

Perhaps you were instructed upon receipt of the archive to provide them in streaming only format. If that's the case, then just say so. Why the tip-toeing around the issue.

Is there no one who's on the side of the public interests here?

This post was modified by aeolianflow on 2007-03-01 04:10:52

This post was modified by aeolianflow on 2007-03-01 04:13:19

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 9:17am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Your Explanation for Deleted Files is Unacceptable

OK. Hold on.
We are working on getting these back up if we can. We encode everything as MPEG format (as far as my limited technical scope is concerned) through deriving processes. If you'd like a really detailed explaination, send in an email and I'll see who I can poke about it.
I'm actually not being obtuse. I'm not brushing you off. Or anyone. This was not meant to be such a deal. When we found out a user downloaded the footage, we pulled it. As we do when people download items that are not posted for downloading.
We, as an organization, do not censor. If you doubt us, please take a look at what we have. In the Iraq war collection, which we have received a lot of grief over, we have a wide range of footage.
We are well aware that people are viewing them. More power to you! That's not our beef at all.
I'm a bit flabergasted that we are really being accused of censorship. You obviously haven't spent much time here if you really believe it.
We are an institution for the public. We take this very seriously. That's why I am taking the time to respond to everyone who writes.
These are valid concerns and we are taking this matter seriously. No obtuse answers. The TV Archive is in beta mode, not in live mode. Since this footage was so important, we decided to offer it in streaming format, even though we haven't worked through the TV Archive yet. Someone abused this, and so we have to do what we do when that happens. The content had been up for some time before someone did this. I'm sorry this comes out like a conspiracy. It's not. Simple as that.
Sometimes the truth is rather simple. Someone abused the items, we are working out how to offer them again. Not obtuse, just clear.

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Poster: Steve Nordby Date: Mar 1, 2007 4:35pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Your Explanation for Deleted Files is Unacceptable

I want to start by thanking PaulForrest for his answers. Really. I love what the IA does. But I don't understand this:

"When we found out a user downloaded the footage, we pulled it. As we do when people download items that are not posted for downloading."

Certainly the IA knows from server logs that not just "a" user, but many users downloaded the video. But if that video was not for the public, how or why was it on a public server? Should not the original, unaltered video be available? Is it a bandwidth issue? Certainly it is not just "streaming" versus a download, because every third grader knows how to save a streaming video, don't they.

But now that the original, unaltered, 1GB mpeg2 BBC video is "in the wild" on bit torrent from those that did download it, I'd suggest visiting your favorite torrent tracker if you want it.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Mar 1, 2007 5:08pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Your Explanation for Deleted Files is Acceptable

On a sidenot- MrRatt, I'm sure I could upload Benjamin Netanyahu or Ann Coulter speeches here -if I followed guidelines.
Then there is the anti-free speech scum in Berkeley who would'nt allow them to speak.
I'm glad you're not one of them.
Viva www.protestwarrior.com

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 2, 2007 10:57am

Forum: forums Subject: ?

I have no idea what this even means, so it makes it hard to respond to you. Is it sarcasm? It is an insult? I was under the assumption from other posts that you were all for the official explanation of 9/11 and anything else falls into the "tin-hat" category. Very mature, developed argument, by the way (that is sarcasm). I am very much in favor of free speech, even when I don't agree with it. I admit I was wrong about the IA since they put the footage back up. Considering the amount of censorship that has been going on with Google, YouTube and Digg on this very issue, I was suspicious to say the least. For now, my "conspiratorial" ire has subsided when it comes to the IA.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 1, 2007 5:24pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Your Explanation for Deleted Files is Acceptable

9pm chatzy - db bday show

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Poster: the ratt Date: Feb 28, 2007 5:01pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Why do these files have to be streamed and not downloadable? They are public domain and fair use. What happened to "Universal Access to Human Knowledge?"

I'm going to be a thorn in your side until you put the files back up. I won't let this go away. I'm tired of the censorship on this story. Previous poster is correct - it's because of the BBC footage.

Google and YouTube are also censoring the story. Prove me wrong if that's not the case.

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 8:50am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

To be clear, we do not know the rights to the footage. We are not copyright lawyers at all, and so try to be very careful about these issues. We are a small non-profit, not a commercial site that has a lot of resources. We do a lot with what we have, but we have a low limit of what we can do.

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:24am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

You still have not addressed why the files have to be streamed and not downloadable. It seems like a convenient, but faulty excuse. I think you pulled the files to cover up the BBC announcing WTC7 collapsing before it actually did. This proves prior knowledge of the collapse and implies a controlled demolition. You are covering this up. Prove me wrong.

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 3:55pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

I actually did respond to that. The files were set up to stream because of the nature of the TV Archive. Just as the Grateful Dead soundboard recordings are streaming only. This was not the only file format that is streaming only.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 1, 2007 4:03pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Wow Paul, you are takin a boatload of crap. Hope you are being paid well to stay so cool - i sure wouldn't be.

(You guys do a great job here on the IA - keep it up man)

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Poster: high flow Date: Mar 1, 2007 4:15pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

If you could be proven wrong it would be the story of the decade!

Johnny Cochran convinced millions that OJ was framed, but I'm guessing your skill-set falls short of Johnny's.

I would love for you to prove any major conspiracy as truth. Until then, they are all just that. Conspiracies. Which, to me, amount to an emotional shot in the dark.

Good luck.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 1, 2007 4:23pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

but the glove didnt' fit????!!!!

(wasn't that enough?)

(puke)

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Poster: benthere Date: Feb 28, 2007 7:12pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Thanks for the response Mr. Forrest. You can see my topic about this in the moving images forum as well: http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=106819. It is an important issue to a large number of people. I hope to see the streaming versions online as soon as possible.

I have two (edit: 3) quick questions:
1. Will the streaming versions of all 417 videos be put back on the site, and if so, do you have an estimate of when that might happen?

2. Did the BBC or anyone else file a complaint with you about copyright issues prior to your taking these videos offline?

3. Who is the "Television Archive" that provided these videos? Is it Vanderbilt University (http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/)?

This post was modified by benthere on 2007-03-01 03:12:25

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 9:11am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

To answer your questions:
1. I do not have a firm timeline about this. We'll be dealing with it today to many people's full attention. We will have a better idea after today.
2. Even if the BBC or anyone else had complained, we would not be able to say. That's not information that anyone is really able to release. Just so ya know.
3. As I mentioned before, the Television Archive is a project of the Internet Archive. A pilot project, and not ready for the open-ness of the web at all. It's a beta thing at this point. I'm sure you'll hear about it when it goes up.

I'm not able to frequent the forums (too much on my plate), but feel free to refer to my responses here. My position is Office Manager, not forum moderator, so please understand. I do a lot more than this.

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Poster: the ratt Date: Feb 28, 2007 1:37pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

If this is the case, why aren't they available for streaming (not download) at this time? When will they be available? How long were the files available before you removed them?

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Feb 28, 2007 2:45pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

They were available for streaming only when we discovered someone had downloaded the content. Until we can fix some programming formats, the files will not be available.

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Poster: davan Date: Mar 2, 2007 4:40am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

"We have pulled the footage because it was not yet ready for public viewing."

Not ready - you mean we are not ready for video data regarding those days topic - in other words - big pappa IA doenst want us to see it. Well nice reaction and pretty weak excuse - for restricting access to all the files.

Maybe you forgot to look into your own charta - why you do what you (basically) do.

Everywhere the same these days - but thanks for confirming this.

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:54am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Well, I'd encourage you to read all of the thread for this. The BBC footage is available again. Our actions do match up with our guiding principles. If you disagree, I am sorry that we are not on the same page.

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 5, 2007 10:01am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

And while I have a mod's attention. How do I create a forum group for the band and ramblings?

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 10:22am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

You should ask through an email request. I will forward that on to the live music archive folk. You can also ask on that forum as well. Either way will send the message in the correct direction.

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 5, 2007 12:05pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Thanks, I sent an email it to info at archive dot org before and posted it a few times in FAQ forums and never heard anything. Thanks. Oh and may the force be with you.

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:59am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

WHAM! In your face conspiracist! Quick think of something outlandish about aliens... hurry!

Good job as always to the staff!

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Poster: HDRJapan Date: Oct 3, 2007 9:25pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Was this illegal aliens or outerspace aliens? Here is my best...

A US Border Patrol Enforcer catches an illegal immigrant in the bushes just on the US side of the border fence, he pulls him out and says "Sorry, you know the law, you've got to go back across the border right now."

The Mexican man pleads with them, "No Senior, I must stay in de USA! Please I beg you!" The Border Patrol Agent thinks to himself, I'm going to make it hard for him and says "Ok, I'll let you stay here if you can use 3 english words in a sentence"...

The Mexican man of course agrees. The Border Patrol Agent tells him, "The 3 words are: Green, Pink and Yellow. Now use them in one sentence." The Mexican man thinks really hard for about 2 minutes, then says, "Hmmm, Ok. The phone, it went Green, Green, Green, I Pink it up and say Yellow?"

---------------------------

I figure there's no way aliens could ever successfully take over this planet. Star Trek fans would pester them to death with sci-fi trivia questions.

Jasper - http://www.hdrjapan.com

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Poster: 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! Date: Mar 5, 2007 12:49pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

ATTENTION INTERNET ARCHIVE

Why is the following video segment missing from your archives?

NBC 4, Washington D.C. September 11, 2001 11:17 am - 11:59 am (September 11, 2001)
http://www.archive.org/details/nbc200109111117-1159

It's supposed to be located in between the links;

NBC 4, Washington D.C. September 11, 2001 10:36 am - 11:17 am (September 11, 2001)
http://www.archive.org/details/nbc200109111036-1117

and

NBC 4, Washington D.C. September 11, 2001 11:59 am - 12:41 pm (September 11, 2001)
http://www.archive.org/details/nbc200109111159-1241

Why does the "next video" link on the 10:36 AM - 11:17 AM segment skip over the 11:17 AM - 11:59 AM segment and go directly to the 11:59 AM - 12:41 PM segment?
------

This piece of NBC footage contains one of the biggest smoking guns of all from 9/11; a video of NBC reporter Pat Dawson reporting on bombs being planted in the World Trade Center as told to him by the Chief of Safety of the New York City Fire Department Albert Turi.

Here's the audio clip of that video segment;

NBC: Pat Dawson Reports Bombs In WTC
http://prisonplanet.tv/articles/may2004/050504bombsinwtc.htm

MP3 File
http://prisonplanet.tv/audio/SecondaryDevices.mp3

You have been caught RED HANDED censoring files. No amount of moving file server excuses, claims that videos are not ready for public viewing or computer file errors will make this go away.

The Internet Archive is complicit in the cover-up of 9/11 and this makes you "accessories after the fact" to the murder of 3,000 people.

Unless you want to end up in court along side the 9/11 criminals when they are brought to justice, you'll put every deleted file back up.

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Poster: biglanceinboise Date: Apr 10, 2007 1:08pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Screw all those assholes at prisonplanet.tv, they are nothing but a bunch of ripoff artists. They will say anything and do anything to get your money just like everybody else. Where's my $55 you fukin theivin bastards?!

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Poster: LuckyLarry Date: Mar 2, 2007 8:11am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

THE BBC FOOTAGE IS BACK UP!

You can now download the smoking gun BBC file here:
http://ia311517.us.archive.org/2/items/bbc200109111654-1736/

IA, PLEASE DO YOUR BEST TO GET ALL OTHER FOOTAGE RESTORED ASAP!

Rest assured you ARE doing the right thing.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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Poster: rastamon Date: Mar 2, 2007 8:30am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

WHEW! I'm soooo relieved! Hey now, here's some great links for the opened minded non-tools >>

http://www.archive.org/details/911-Conspiracy-Rebuttal

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

This post was modified by rastamon on 2007-03-02 16:30:13

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 2, 2007 10:33am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

This is ridiculous - this debunking video is worthless and doesn't answer any of the major questions, and the other site is joke. Please use facts when debating. It makes it a lot more fun.

With an issue as complex and diverse as September 11th, this is not the forum for proper debate. I recommend more research on your part before coming to a conclusion. I think some of the clearest evidence of the official story being wrong lies in WTC7. At the VERY LEAST, there was prior knowledge of it's demolition. Beyond that, there are many unanswered questions that demand an independent investigation. I don't know who did it and I'm not making any accusations, but the official story is too flawed to be believed. Investigate 9/11.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Mar 2, 2007 10:55am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

By all means, don't watch it! And don't study the other link or anything else you disagree with.
In any case, the major demolition was when a bunch of fucking Islamofacist scum rammed fuel laden jet's into the Towers and the Pentagon. But who knows? Maybe they also set charges to make sure. Maybe the hate-America pawns of the New World Order & the EU had alot to do with it also, in funding and training. Maybe-maybe. That's all I have to say on this subject. Chow

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 2, 2007 1:02pm

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

I did watch it and I did read the other site, hense my comments. Thanks.

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:53am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

I was jerking off in bed and saw the 2nd plane hit live. Of course I finished, but I did not take my eye off that screen. If I had known it was produced by the real elvis during the phony moonwalk films, I would have immediatey refrained from further masterbation. I saw bigfoot and the jersey devil enter buidling 7 and lit off a secret alien implosion device that alos downloads mp3's. This thread is completely nuts. Don't beat up moderators, they are busy prepping Jihadi beheading derivative files!

Poster:	the ratt	Date:	Mar 2, 2007 10:57am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	?

Poster:	DavidLavendle	Date:	Feb 27, 2007 1:20pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	cheifet	Date:	Mar 3, 2007 6:23am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	christoq	Date:	Mar 3, 2007 11:12pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	And here is the BBC's second attempt at an explanation.

Poster:	vimanaboy	Date:	Feb 27, 2007 3:22pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	brewster	Date:	Mar 2, 2007 6:20pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	A couple BBC 9/11 videos available again

Poster:	IIB	Date:	Mar 4, 2007 10:49am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	Interogator	Date:	Mar 9, 2007 6:36am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	Telephone Toughguy	Date:	Mar 9, 2007 8:46am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	adisonedu	Date:	Sep 26, 2007 5:09pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	LuckyLarry	Date:	Mar 2, 2007 8:11am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	PaulForrest	Date:	Mar 1, 2007 11:11am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	lakeshorebaby	Date:	Mar 1, 2007 1:21pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	direwolf0701	Date:	Mar 1, 2007 3:22pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	davan	Date:	Mar 2, 2007 4:57am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	Edsel	Date:	Mar 2, 2007 5:22am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	MrAuer	Date:	Feb 28, 2007 2:32pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	reprehensor	Date:	Mar 1, 2007 7:48am
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	LapDog	Date:	Mar 1, 2007 12:37pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	RssProtocol	Date:	Oct 6, 2007 10:01pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	aeolianflow	Date:	Feb 28, 2007 8:13pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Your Explanation for Deleted Files is Unacceptable

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Poster: DavidLavendle Date: Feb 27, 2007 1:20pm Forum: forums Subject: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: cheifet Date: Mar 3, 2007 6:23am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 3, 2007 11:12pm Forum: forums Subject: And here is the BBC's second attempt at an explanation.

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Poster: vimanaboy Date: Feb 27, 2007 3:22pm Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: brewster Date: Mar 2, 2007 6:20pm Forum: forums Subject: A couple BBC 9/11 videos available again

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Poster: IIB Date: Mar 4, 2007 10:49am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 9, 2007 6:36am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 9, 2007 9:40am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: adisonedu Date: Sep 26, 2007 5:09pm Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 10, 2007 1:04am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: LuckyLarry Date: Mar 2, 2007 8:11am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 2, 2007 10:31am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:43am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:43am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:57am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 10:24am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 6, 2007 9:31am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 10, 2007 7:58am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: lakeshorebaby Date: Mar 1, 2007 1:21pm Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 1, 2007 3:22pm Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: davan Date: Mar 2, 2007 4:57am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: Edsel Date: Mar 2, 2007 5:22am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 2, 2007 9:33am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 3:09pm Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 2, 2007 1:03am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:42am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Feb 27, 2007 4:22pm Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: MrAuer Date: Feb 28, 2007 2:32pm Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Feb 28, 2007 2:46pm Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: reprehensor Date: Mar 1, 2007 7:48am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 9:29am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:18am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:31am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 11:03am Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

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Poster: DavidLavendle Date: Feb 27, 2007 1:20pm

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Poster: cheifet Date: Mar 3, 2007 6:23am

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 3, 2007 11:12pm

Forum: forums Subject: And here is the BBC's second attempt at an explanation.

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Poster: vimanaboy Date: Feb 27, 2007 3:22pm

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Poster: brewster Date: Mar 2, 2007 6:20pm

Forum: forums Subject: A couple BBC 9/11 videos available again

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Poster: IIB Date: Mar 4, 2007 10:49am

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 9, 2007 6:36am

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 9, 2007 8:46am

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 9, 2007 8:53am

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 9, 2007 9:29am

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 9, 2007 9:40am

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: Mar 9, 2007 10:12am

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Poster: adisonedu Date: Sep 26, 2007 5:09pm

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 10, 2007 1:04am

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Poster: LuckyLarry Date: Mar 2, 2007 8:11am

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 2, 2007 10:31am

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:43am

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 11:11am

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 2, 2007 12:31pm

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:43am

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:57am

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 10:24am

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 6, 2007 9:31am

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Poster: Interogator Date: Mar 10, 2007 7:58am

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Poster: lakeshorebaby Date: Mar 1, 2007 1:21pm

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 1, 2007 3:22pm

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Poster: davan Date: Mar 2, 2007 4:57am

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Poster: Edsel Date: Mar 2, 2007 5:22am

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Mar 2, 2007 9:33am

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 3:09pm

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Poster: christoq Date: Mar 2, 2007 1:03am

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 5, 2007 9:42am

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Feb 27, 2007 4:22pm

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Poster: MrAuer Date: Feb 28, 2007 2:32pm

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Feb 28, 2007 2:46pm

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Poster: reprehensor Date: Mar 1, 2007 7:48am

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 9:29am

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:18am

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Poster: the ratt Date: Mar 1, 2007 10:31am

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Poster: PaulForrest Date: Mar 1, 2007 11:03am

Forum: forums Subject: Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	Steve Nordby	Date:	Mar 1, 2007 4:35pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Your Explanation for Deleted Files is Unacceptable

Poster:	rastamon	Date:	Mar 1, 2007 5:08pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Your Explanation for Deleted Files is Acceptable

Poster:	high flow	Date:	Mar 1, 2007 4:15pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	benthere	Date:	Feb 28, 2007 7:12pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	HDRJapan	Date:	Oct 3, 2007 9:25pm
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Poster:	9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!	Date:	Mar 5, 2007 12:49pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!

Poster:	biglanceinboise	Date:	Apr 10, 2007 1:08pm
Forum:	forums	Subject:	Re: Complaint : Important, historical files deleted!